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Is there anyone who shares my thoughts that a caravan which is widely advertised as being usable all year round should therefore have a drainage system which does not freeze up as soon as the temperature dips below zero? I have had that happen to me and I am not happy. I have not had the van, a Unicorn, very long and when the grey water would not run away after a night of two or three degrees of frost I decided to take a look under the van. It isn't the sort of thing you would normally do when buying and what I found was bare uPVC pipes and severall places for water to sit.

I don't think this is good enough for something which is advertised with photos of young children sitting inside and looking whistfully at the snow on the ground outside. It would seem that the van is ok and warm enough (in fairness the heating system is fabulous) just as long as you don't run any water down the drain.

I consider that this makes the van unfit for the purpose of camping in the cold and am in the process of taking up the issue with the manufacturers. 

Does anyone agree with me or am I being unfair on a cottage industry which seems to be only just managing to keep up with modern life, conveniences and expectations?

I believe that the actual wording used by Bailey is that the van has "market-leading thermal insulation, allowing you to holiday all year round". So, playing devil's advocate - The reason Bailey give for you being able to holiday all year round is the thermal insulation which is between the inner and outer layer of the van and not around the drainage pipes. Note also that the quote from their web site says "holiday" all year round rather than that all of the van is usable all year round 

The caravan is, in any event, usable all year round. Some parts of it may be best left alone in certain conditions such that you use the site washing facilities but that does not necessarily mean that the Van is unusable. 

Caravanning, as a life style, takes on many forms and often the way we caravan is dictated by the weather and personal preferences. So, some may use the vans washing facilities whilst others always use the site showers. In freezing weather more folk use the site facilities. We all know that the drain pipes are not lagged.

Then the water supply in a caravan usually comes from an external source and that insulation is down to the user. If that, or the pump freezes, it matters not what the drain pipes do! 

Then there is the setting up on site which is outside of Bailey control. Has the van been so sited that water cannot be left standing in the pipes? How many vans do we see leaving a site with water running out of the drain pipes because it was set up in a such a way that the water did not drain freely until the van is rocked about whilst towed? Many a time in fact. That's the way it is.

So, Baileys are simply saying that you can holiday all year round but you need to use site facilities sometimes. That is still holidaying

Now, if we want to do something with a caravan that is out of the normal way of caravanning (which is to adjust to the conditions- as we do) we need to ask the salesman, when buying, for an assurance that the drain pipes were fully insulated to ensure that they would not freeze. Had that question been asked, and an assurance been given that they would not, then you have a the basis of a cause of action.

I would be interested to have a verbatim reply from bailey posted

Phil 

Are you using a Wastemaster? If so it might be worth thinking about using a bucket in very cold weather. The reasoning is that the contents of the Wastemaster will freeze and then back up the water into the drain pipes which also freezes. If the water can drain into an open container there is less risk of the whole system freezing up.

David 

Thank you to all contributors. Just to fill you all in it is a Valencia which does indeed have an on-board container for fresh water. It isn't that aspect I am concerned about as with a bit of preplanning and sight of a forecast you can usually cater for the cold.  I use a wastemaster and am also fully aware of the problems if that freezes. That is also in my domain. It is process of getting waste water out of the van which has you buy the short and curlies. You don't have any options there although I do like the idea of breaking into the pipe as it comes through the floor and letting it empty directly into a bucket. Bang goes the warranty though if I do it at the moment. Trimming the balance of the van to be 'one wing low' is also a thought although I don't know how far it would be necessary to do so to be sure of emptying everything out. I suppose that as long as I don't roll out of bed and the fridge still works then that shouldn't be an issue

My argument is that, despite the manufacturers banging on about which standards they meet in their design, in true and realistic terms you can't camp in the cold if you are unable to offload waste water without the pipes freezing up with trapped liquid - whatever colour it is!. As far as I can see it if the pipes are uninsulated and level under the floor with slight sagging or bends introducing traps then either the design is crap or the quality of manufacture is. I can't see any other choice.

I am still waiting to have a conclusive reply from Baileys. They have been very polite in their rather short replies and not surpisingly they seem to have been very careful about what their stance is to the extent that I can't actually understand what they are saying. I'll let you all know just as soon as I have a good reply of one form or another. 

Your argument started with " a caravan which is widely advertised as being usable all year round should therefore have a drainage system which does not freeze up"

As I said in my earlier post, Bailey has an answer to that if they just want to focus on that point. As the thread has progressed I think that the argument has altered. Its not so much about a caravan for all seasons as about a design fault (of which there are a number in caravans. A fridge that switches from electrict to gas when you do the washing up because the button on the fridge to make that change is right where you stand at the sink and your tummy switches power supplies!!!) 

My pipes froze at Castleton last week (it was minus 5C) and when I looked under the van the length of the pipe was at the same level until just before the out let. The nearside of the van had been positioned on a ramp slightly higher than  level to assist with drainage. However, that siberian wind from the east hit the back of the van first and I think the water just froze more or less straight away as it flowed slowly.

It occurred to me that all you need for effective drainage (apart from the user intervention) is for the supports attaching the drains to the underside of the van to be slightly longer as the pipe travels the length of the van. That way the drainage slopes down assisting flow. Then they could attach a cover around the pipes to the van (which could be easily removed if required) with the same insulation as they have in the van and that would assist. Doesn't sound like much weight to attach to a van. Perhaps the issue may be the drop required to be effective as that may affect clearance between road and van. 

Just a thought. Maybe they will try it once they have thought about Trevor's problem.

I suppose we could carry some pipe insulation with us and fit it around the pipes in winter, but then who wants to be messing about under a van? 

Phil

See my post 18th March . We did use a bucket after all  difficultgies were resolved.  Lots of other people on site also had  frozen pipes ,pumps etc  and all different vans, most alot younger and smarter than ours.

The odd thing was, we have been away in far lower temps. -15c in Cotswolds a few years back, without having the same  problems. Mind you bitter east wind roaring round underside of van may have been a factor. BTW this was in  Teesdale last week. Cheers Siobhan,