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Subject Topic: Legalities of Buying Unroadworthy Caravan Post Reply Post New Topic
15/8/2013 at 2:00pm
 Location: None Entered
 Outfit: LMC Luxus
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Hi all,

This isn't for me, it's my father. My van is fine (touching wood!)

He bought a van off ebay in a classified private ad described as "excellent condition" and "dry stored from purchase"

He went to inspect the van, and found no problems.

So he bought it and we towed it away.

Through the journey, I kept feeling a "bang" through the car as we pulled away after stopping. We got this inspected and the damper and brakes don't work at all.

Am I right in thinking this is not roadworthy? It was sold as being in excellent condition. Realistically, if I needed to brake hard on the evening we towed it something very bad could have happened!

The seller is refusing any responsibility for this.

Am I right in thinking that under section 75 of the RTA 1988 he has committed an offence? He's sold a vehicle that is not roadworthy and has misrepresented in the advert?


15/8/2013 at 2:05pm
 Location: Lancashire
 Outfit: Caravan now Sold
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for me not as advertised.you can ask for your money back.

(It was sold as being in excellent condition. )



-------------
the only silly question is the one you do not ask.


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15/8/2013 at 2:11pm
 Location: south cheshire
 Outfit: VW Caddy Maxi
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I did the same thing, only my van leaked like a sieve.. and was dangerous with worn out gas pipes and electrics.

I asked the seller to compensate me for what it would cost to put it right, or a refund and take it back, both were refused... using the 'sold as seen' argument.

It could be argued that the damage had been done since I had towed it home after paying for it.

I could however, have taken him to the small claims court. If you are going down this route, you need to get an official report done from a qualified engineer to prove how bad the problem is and do it soon.

The mobile engineer I got out wanted me to go down this route, however, I just paid him to put it right and put it down to experience as I really wanted to keep the caravan!

The way I would go is to get an estimate for a repair (if the rest of the van is ok!) and see if he'll pay up. My seller wouldn't, but yours might. If you are really insistent, then the small claims court is one way to go.

-------------


15/8/2013 at 2:35pm
 Location: Midlands
 Outfit: Mondeo Avondale Gram
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They can argue that you inspected it and paid for it so you accepted the condition as seen.

Small claims is an option but what are the chances of them paying even if you win?

The driver is responsible for the vehicle being in a roadworthy condition. Not the seller.

One of the watchdog type programs proved this when they investigated a dodgy car hire firm. They hored out unroadworthy vehicles yet the police would do nothing.
They said the driver is responsible. If its not roadworthy then dont use it.

The banging maybe just the damper an easy fix. May just need a good service.

Check the grease nipples on the hitch. Any signs of them being used?



15/8/2013 at 2:51pm
 Location: None Entered
 Outfit: LMC Luxus
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ok thanks for the feedback.

As for the roadworthyness. We did a walkround, checked lights, hitch, tyres, wheels etc.

The braking only became apparent after braking when we pulled away so not sure how I would be able to check that while its sat on a drive?

It's not the only issue - it's leaking water. and in some places so badly the wood is rotten and disintegrates when touched. This was hidden when the van was inspected. My father even went up with a protometer so he had a good look. The rot discovery only came about when the engineer was checking out the van. It was well hidden by all accounts.

My father has given the seller options to either rectify the issue or refund the money. Both options refused. He did say the best he would do is give back most of the money but keep £200 for himself for the "inconvenience"!!

I'm not sure what to advise my father. He's bitterly dissapointed. Likes the van but feels like he's been misled and ripped off, now stuck with a van that will cost £300 - £400 to repair.


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15/8/2013 at 4:25pm
 Location: None Entered
 Outfit: LMC Luxus
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A bit of quick research on legal sites and governments sites brings up the following (covering both private and commercial):

the caravan
1. Must be as described and
2. Must be roadworthy

It is a criminal offence under s75 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 to sell an unroadworthy caravan punishable by a fine of up to £2000

For legal purposes it is unroadworthy if it is in such a condition that its use on a road would involve a danger of injury to any person


I'd say the seller doesn't have a leg to stand on going on that!


15/8/2013 at 5:50pm
 Location: Worcestershire
 Outfit: Defender 90 and MyWay Voyager Raid
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Have you got a copy of the advert?

-------------
Love a lot. Trust a few. But ALWAYS paddle your own canoe!!
Minds are like parachutes:- They only function when they are open!!!
Those who talk don't know.
Those who know don't talk.


15/8/2013 at 7:27pm
 Location: None Entered
 Outfit: LMC Luxus
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yes. It's still on the internet now.
I can post the link but not sure if it's against policies...


16/8/2013 at 12:30am
 Location: South Yorks
 Outfit: Elddis Affinity 574
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Only in my opinion and mine only as a private sale it is a case of "caveat emptor" buyer beware.
Section 75 of the RTA may quote that it is a criminal offence but I doubt very much that the crown prosecution service would take on such an offence. Your only course of action would be the civil courts which may seem cheap but when you add in expert witness testament fees it would soon start getting expensive and even if you do win you may not be able to claim expenses or even get paid out.
It maybe easier to put this one down to experience.


16/8/2013 at 9:23am
 Location: East Midlands
 Outfit: Coachman VIP 575.Santa Fe
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There is amember on here qualified to give legal views and he may see this and advise you.
My own view based on observed experience is that the Sale of Goods Act relates to businees not private transactions but if the ad descibes it as being in excellent condition and it is not roadworthy you can use the small claims court.To what effect I am not sure.

-------------
Mister G


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16/8/2013 at 10:16am
 Location: None Entered
 Outfit: LMC Luxus
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ok, thanks for the pointers.

Talking with my father last night, i think the stress and pain of getting it through courts etc is too much. My mother isn't in good health so I think they're just going to have to put it down to experience and get the damper & brakes repaired.

It's so frustrating that people out there do this. Nice as you like on the day we picked it up. Even told the lady about my kids (4 and 7 yrs old)....then they let us drive away in a van that could have killed us! Then when we challenge them say it's our issue. I'd love to go back and pay a visit. It's so maddening, makes my blood boil.

....and there's nothing we can do about it. Just got to sit and take it.


16/8/2013 at 10:23am
 Location: Worcestershire
 Outfit: Buccaneer Cruiser
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Quote: Originally posted by einriba on 15/8/2013
Hi all,

This isn't for me, it's my father. My van is fine (touching wood!)

He bought a van off ebay in a classified private ad described as "excellent condition" and "dry stored from purchase"

He went to inspect the van, and found no problems.

So he bought it and we towed it away.

Through the journey, I kept feeling a "bang" through the car as we pulled away after stopping. We got this inspected and the damper and brakes don't work at all.

Am I right in thinking this is not roadworthy? It was sold as being in excellent condition. Realistically, if I needed to brake hard on the evening we towed it something very bad could have happened!

The seller is refusing any responsibility for this.

Am I right in thinking that under section 75 of the RTA 1988 he has committed an offence? He's sold a vehicle that is not roadworthy and has misrepresented in the advert?



Could be difficult as there is no roadworthy test for caravans. However as others stated the Misrepresentation Act could come into play, but this is a lot of hassle and time consuming. If the caravan is otherwise okay, get it serviced and enjoy using it.


16/8/2013 at 12:26pm
 Location: West Midlands
 Outfit: Various tents
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Quote: Originally posted by iank01 on 16/8/2013

...If the caravan is otherwise okay, get it serviced and enjoy using it.



It's not, apparently: "It's not the only issue - it's leaking water. and in some places so badly the wood is rotten and disintegrates when touched. This was hidden when the van was inspected. My father even went up with a protometer so he had a good look. The rot discovery only came about when the engineer was checking out the van. It was well hidden by all accounts."



17/8/2013 at 10:14am
 Location: Worcestershire
 Outfit: Buccaneer Cruiser
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Quote: Originally posted by Hacksaw Bob on 16/8/2013
Quote: Originally posted by iank01 on 16/8/2013
...If the caravan is otherwise okay, get it serviced and enjoy using it.


It's not, apparently: "It's not the only issue - it's leaking water. and in some places so badly the wood is rotten and disintegrates when touched. This was hidden when the van was inspected. My father even went up with a protometer so he had a good look. The rot discovery only came about when the engineer was checking out the van. It was well hidden by all accounts."


The only thing you can use against them is the Misrepresentation Act, but it can be tricky. It is best to get advice from CAB as more than likely this will need to go to court to claim compensation. CAB may advise you to contact Trading Standards.
Also in the meantime, check if this seller has sold caravans previously as he may be a "home" trader posing as an individual. This is a criminal offence. There was a seller on ukcampsite that was doing this and ended up being prosecuted. We were caught by this seller thanks another alert member who pointed out he had sold 11 caravans in as many months.
Start now by creating a paper trail and send a nice registered letter requesting a full refund of all money paid and give them 14 days to respond. When they do not respond send them a "Letter before Action"(LBA) stating that you will be proceeding with a small claims case to claim a full refund plus the cost of getting an engineer's report on the caravan and you require an answer within 7 days. Please don't waffle in the letters and stick to bullet points. I can be bad for waffling which can confuse the reader. LOL!
Hopefully you have arranged for an engineer to do a report on the caravan and get a copy of the advert. Don't send the LBA unless you genuinely are going to follow it through. Keep us updated.



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