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Subject Topic: Opinions on new caravan structure
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Personnora
07/8/2014 at 8:41am
 Location:  Whitchurch shrops
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Going back to my first question . Is Bonding and gluing are the same and can they become un stuck . We have just been looking at new vans. I was also told that aeroplanes are made this way . ( are they? ) no wonder I don't like flying . They are all the same as far I am concerned. Also because they don't seem to have wood in them now there is nothing to rot . This may sound convincing but it's still fine for them to leak .
I would like to add a few photos but am not able to .


PersonJTQU
07/8/2014 at 9:17am
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Bonding and gluing are the same however in engineering terms "bonding" implies special forms of gluing. Bonding products chemically change as they "set", whereas many glues simply set by the solvent, sometimes water, evaporating.
Bonding can come unstuck but correctly applied the bond has given strengths, to tear, peel etc, often way higher than that of the materials stuck together.
Many aeroplanes including airliners you will fly in if travelling by air, use extensive amounts of bonding.
I am sorry you feel "they are all the same", but I can assure you there are a huge number of different bonding products with differing properties; designers select the ones needed for the job they do, or try to.
A lot of things other than wood can rot, or regrade with water ingress; wood though is excellent for failing with damp.
Some materials can actually tolerate getting damp, so perfect integrity if still desirable is not essential. That is infinitely better than constructing with materials that cant tolerate any ingress.

I am certainly not in the camp believing the UK builders have it cracked, they have miles to go. But at least they are now starting to take in advice from those who can massively improve their products in a structural way.


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Persontrog100
07/8/2014 at 10:05am
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complains about new vans leaking are not about rot.. they are just about leaks (water getting inside) and bits falling off..

my twenty year old van is dry.. as caravans go its well built and has a one piece fibre glass roof with a nice over lap joint where the top meets the sides.. why are they not all done this way.. it also has one piece fibre glass front and rear panels and not the modern ABS plastic.. so why are they not all done this way.. its heavy and its expensive..

even the white packing case foam used is rubbish.. the way the floors are made is a joke.. you can get far more durable foam its used under ballroom floors.. they could use this in caravans they dont why its heavier and more expensive.. if folks want to believe all the high tech flannel used to persuade folks to buy new caravans that is up to them.. i cant say as i do..

what i see is firms making ten year promises and being unable to keep them as these things leak and fall apart.. the long wait getting problems fixed is a sign this is already happening.. one day to fix.. three months in the queue waiting to be fixed seems par for the course..

trog    


Personfreeatlast
07/8/2014 at 3:42pm
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Quote: Originally posted by nora on 07/8/2014Going back to my first question . Is Bonding and gluing are the same and can they become un stuck . We have just been looking at new vans. I was also told that aeroplanes are made this way . ( are they? ) no wonder I don't like flying . They are all the same as far I am concerned. Also because they don't seem to have wood in them now there is nothing to rot . This may sound convincing but it's still fine for them to leak . I would like to add a few photos but am not able to .


Obviously bonding can become unstuck, though usually it is the material bonded to that fails rather than the glue joint itself.

Yes aeroplanes are made this way, and are far safer because of it. Ever heard of metal fatigue? Brought down a lot of planes until engineers really understood the problem. Formula 1 racing cars are made this way too. See how they stand up to major crashes.

Think about your own house. Much of it is bonded. Bricks/mortar, plaster on the walls and ceiling, plasterboard, chipboard floors (yes chipboard and plywood are bonded materials), etc etc. Even your bath and shower are probably bonded. Ever been in a skyscraper? Concrete used widely in their construction is a form of bonded material.

Much of the leakage problems in traditional caravans comes through water ingress through the screw holes used to join the panels together. The wood round the screw holes then rots and weakens.

My first caravan (a Sterling Europa) had a major repair after just one year with most of one side inside being replaced due to damp. Two years later the damp was evident in both sides of the caravan with a damp meter off the scale wherever you placed it on the walls. The van was a write off. That was 15 years ago.

I would not have bought a British made caravan again had they not changed the construction. I bet you could not do this with a 20year old caravan:




Post last edited on 07/08/2014 15:51:27

Post last edited on 07/08/2014 15:54:17


Personbrianconwy
07/8/2014 at 5:50pm
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Quote: Originally posted by VangoMan02 on 07/8/2014
brianc...Ok..I will step out of this post as we seem to be going round in circles.
You come across as defending the caravan industry and giving them a pat on the back for poor quality!


Where did anybody anywhere give them a pat on the back for poor quality?

There are two ways of dealing with quality issues. You can keep on doing what.you have always done and live with the warranty repairs or you can look at the cause of the problem and attempt to cure it with new approaches. It is this route I feel has to be the way to go.


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Persontrog100
08/8/2014 at 10:57am
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a conventional caravan is basically some flat panels fastened together.. lots of joints mostly butt joints and lots of leak potential..

a freedom caravan is two fibre glass mouldings joined together to make one single fibre glass body..

fibre glass is old technology but a freedom caravan wont leak or fall apart..

ask yourself one simple question.. why are not all caravans made this way.. its not rocket science and its quite easy to make leak proof caravans..

fibre glass is relatively expensive and its relatively heavy.. this means smaller or heavier caravans..

people dont want smaller or heavier caravans.. as long as this simple fact applies modern technology will be used to give people what they want.. large light weight flashy boxes on wheels.. which whatever fancy techno geek terms they are dressed up with will still be large flashy light weight boxes on wheels.. he he..

to be honest i am amazed the things last as long as they do..

trog



   


Personbrianconwy
08/8/2014 at 1:35pm
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'fibre glass is old technology but a freedom caravan wont leak or fall apart..'

They have been known to leak according to some posts.


Freedom damp/leaking


Persontrog100
08/8/2014 at 6:24pm
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okay i will rephrase.. because of the way they are made they are far less likely to leak.. poorly fitted windows .. lights and other bits and bobs can leak but the basic body structure will not leak.. it cant..

freedom caravans are made like boats are made.. conventional caravans are made like sheds on wheels..

every seem or join in the panels is a potential leak point waiting to happen.. 35 feet of potential leaks x 2 plus the join across the front and back.. add another 15 feet for that and i aint count where the sides join the floor.. or the window rubbers and door..

have i described a leak waiting to happen.. i recon i have.. he he..

trog


Personbev+jon
10/8/2014 at 11:20pm
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Ahhhh, the pegasus with the car on the roof, think that ended up being our van ( ex ).
Wouldnt touch a new van from any uk manufacturer after the nightmare 3 years of alutech ownership. Had more damp in it than any old school conventional van we have owned.
" 1 day all caravans will be built this way "
Lol, lets hope not eh ?



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