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Topic: Caravan brakes

Di+Glyn_W

24/8/2016 at 10:14pm
Location: Ashford Kent
Outfit: BMW X4. No van :-(

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Whilst travelling back up from the Ardeche last week, the brakes 'failed' on our caravan.

We spoke to both our dealer, and an engineer contacted on our behalf by Red Pennant.

It seems that our brake pads had completely worn, the apparent result of towing our van with the handbrake applied. The engineer did say it could be that the brakes had been badly adjusted.

We're still waiting for our van to be returned to the UK for repair.

Towing with the handbrake applied seems unlikely to me; we had had to move the van using the motor mover to get off our site when we left.

On our trip down, we had to hitch and un-hitch several times. What we did have was about an hour driving on very steep winding hills down the N102 in the Ardeche.

I'm not convinced at all that we could/would have driven with the handbrake applied.

However, has anyone else had any experience of this...is it possible??

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Glyn W.

What if the Hokey Cokey really is what it's all about....?

tango55

24/8/2016 at 11:07pm
Location: Lichfield
Outfit: Coachman Amara 450

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Firstly, the caravan doesn't have brake pads fitted, they are brake shoes as there is a big difference in the way the two function so if the engineer has used this term then he is wrong. However, if you had left the handrake applied when towing it would have been noticable in the fact that the car engine would have most likely stalled and the caravan wheels would have got very hot to a degree that if you chucked cold water on the wheels they would have hissed and the water turned to steam. That's the effect that having the brakes applied would have had. Also, if the brakes were engaged then the heat transfer would have melted the grease in the wheel bearings so this is something to keep in mind regarding what the engineer said.

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Di+Glyn_W

25/8/2016 at 12:27am
Location: Ashford Kent
Outfit: BMW X4. No van :-(

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Hi Tango,

you are of course correct; 'shoes' not 'pads' was the term used by the engineer.

He did also mention the melting of the grease, but by that time my head was already going into overdrive thinking about how we would get everything home!

He did say that,were that to happen, the wheels would likely seize, with the likely devastation that would entail.....

Nevertheless, I still think, as you said, that had I driven with the handbrake applied we would certainly have noticed it.......

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Glyn W.

What if the Hokey Cokey really is what it's all about....?

tango55

25/8/2016 at 1:05am
Location: Lichfield
Outfit: Coachman Amara 450

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When the brakes shoes are set up correctly the wheels should spin freely with minimal gap between the brake shoe linings and the drum. However, when the caravan is jacked up and placed on axle stands for support, when the handbrake is applied to the first click there should be some resistance felt when the caravan wheels are turned as the brakes begin to bind. On the second click there should be a little more resistance making the wheels more difficult to spin but on the third click the brakes should grab with no resistance at all which is when the handbrake is fully on. After explaining how the brakes function, the problem that you encountered should make more sense as to what most likely happened. If the handbrake was not fully released and left on the first click then the driver wouldn't have felt any significant resistance but enough for the brake linings to make contact with the brake drum thus creating friction. This continuous friction would generate heat which then leads to heat expansion and it's this expansion that causes parts to eventually seize up which makes me think that this is the most probable cause. If the handbrake was fully on then you wouldn't have been able to tow but not releasing it fully can lead to severe problems.
That's why it pays to double check everything properly before setting off as the handbrake can look as if it's down but it may not be 100%.
As the caravan broke down on the return journey home I doubt whether the fault was down to badly set up brakes otherwise I doubt whether you would have mad it to your destination at all.
Hope you get it sorted anyway.

Opensauce

25/8/2016 at 7:55am
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How did you notice the fault when towing? Did you notice resistance when trying to pull away or where the brakes squealing? It's possible one of the linings could have detached from from shoe.

I presume caravan could not be repaired due to non availability of parts because at worst it would have needed new drums/bearings, new brake linings, related parts & a couple of hours to fit.

Di+Glyn_W

25/8/2016 at 10:24am
Location: Ashford Kent
Outfit: BMW X4. No van :-(

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We realised something was wrong when the van began to run into the rear of the car when we braked. I did initially think that perhaps there was an issue with the over-run system - problem was we were on the autoroute by then so was caught between stopping right there or carrying on to our booked site.

Looking at the size of the hardshoulder, I elected to continue whilst OH made some phone calls.

We could have stayed with van whilst local arrangements are made for an engineer to attend and dismantle, then replace any parts required. Unfortunately that would mean waiting a week on-site, and that just wasn't an option for us.

The only alternative was to have it recovered, bearing in mind the issues noted above regarding the wheel bearings.

To be honest, the 'you must have left the handbrake on' comment smacked of the dealer trying to avoid responsibility, hence my query here.

However the comment from Tango55 just goes to prove that you learn something new every day! Expensive lesson, but could have been worse.

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Glyn W.

What if the Hokey Cokey really is what it's all about....?

tango55

25/8/2016 at 11:05am
Location: Lichfield
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When you say that the van was shunting into the rear of the car was because the damper (directly behind the stabiliser hitch) was actually compressing but no resistance due to the fact there was no allowance for movement on the brake shoes. I had this problem with my car and caravan but mine was the opposite way round, the brakes were too far away from the drums so the damper was compressing and shunting the rear of the car especially down hill. Since having the caravan serviced the problem has now been eliminated.
Did you have any problems with this happening on the way there or just on the return journey home?

trog100

25/8/2016 at 12:58pm
Location: None Entered
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i think your damper failed which caused the van to bump into the car on the over run.. i think the brakes had been worn for some time and you didnt know..

the dealers answer was the only way he could think of for sudden worn out linings brakes failure..

i say this because when the damper is working properly there would be no signs of the van bumping the car even without the van brakes working properly..

as the driver with a properly working damper there will be no "clunk" the only signs of the van brakes not working would properly be a lesser braking performance.. how much less would depend on how you drive and how good your car brakes are..

i think your van brakes have not been working properly for some time.. your damper failing (clunks on the overrun) simply caused you to arrive at the wrong conclusion.. your van brakes had not suddenly failed just your damper..

brakes shoes do not suddenly wear out and fail.. dampers can do.. as you say running with the hand brake on for long enough enough to cause brake failure would be very obvious.. it would get sizzling hot with smoke and stink to high heaven.. plus you would have to be pretty dumb or have a very high powered car not to notice the drag..

van brakes do not stop the overrun clunk the damper does that.. your damper failed you had the brakes checked and discovered they were not working.. pure coincidence..

trog

Di+Glyn_W

26/8/2016 at 1:04am
Location: Ashford Kent
Outfit: BMW X4. No van :-(

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The van's only 18 months old - I'd be really surprised if the brakes are that worn.... And it was serviced in February so would hope any excessive wear would have been noted then.

Having said that, the trip to our site was mostly downhill for the last 35 odd miles, with lots of 'hairpin' bends to negotiate. Again, I wouldn't think enough to badly wear the brakes. Our friends following behind confirmed a distinct absence of black smoke or smell of brakes burning!

Have had a call today from the recovery company - our van is now on its way back to the UK so hopefully will find out in a few days....

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Glyn W.

What if the Hokey Cokey really is what it's all about....?

adrian06

26/8/2016 at 9:42am
Location: S E Hampshire
Outfit: Knaus Starclass 565

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...and many of us, I'm sure, would like to hear the final, definitive diagnosis and conclusion to this potential disaster.

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Adrian

Opensauce

26/8/2016 at 10:23am
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If the brakes were inoperative on a caravan that size then you would have known all about it. I does sound as 'simple' as a failed hitch damper which would have caused the bumping as described but brakes would have been ok.

However the impossibility of organising an onsite repair in France in August within your time scale would have made recovery the best option as the insurance covered it.

If 'van is still under warranty then failed hitch damper, parts/labour cost around £150 should be covered.

blueexpo97

26/8/2016 at 2:14pm
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I think mechanical, if that's what you would put the damper under, would only be covered under the first year of warranty.

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XVI yes?

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How does a sage know everything about everything? or does he? or does he just think he does?
Remember, if you buy something you bought it, not brought it.

navver

26/8/2016 at 8:11pm
Location: West country
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The other possibility is the break away cable being a little taut and pulling the handbrake on slightly.

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