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Topic: Nose weights - is it time to re assess?

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Mick S.

06/9/2016 at 8:15pm
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Having spent many un-happy hours up and down the motorways this year, i have been amazed at the number of caravans where the back has been ar$e up and the tow car ar$e down. And this hasnt been on huge-caravan/ageing Ford Mondeo type combos either. On the contrary, many have been very new.

I am wondering whether car makers are pushing the 'technical limits' to make vehicles more attractive? Using test bed/lab conditions type scenarios - not unlike fuel consumption claims. Where with the wind in the right direction, and every tin of beans weighed out and placed, it is just possible to get it right?

Obviously there is always the chance these outfits are badly loaded, but a glance into some of the vehicles suggests they are not piled to the roof.

This brings me in mind of a mate with a newish Golf Estate, that resorted to beefing up his suspension to pull quite a regular 'van, as his back end was barely inches from the ground when hooked up. He used to insist that he was well within the nose-weight limits, but the car was just not up to hooking this van up. He changed vans to a newer model, and still the same.

Also, i did notice that many of the out of shape combos i spotted were the present in vogue makes of Kia/Hyundai/Skoda 4x4 'wannabes'. So if VW are struggling to match up to some degree, maybe the 'economical' end have no chance of getting the cost/balance right. Which makes me think the weights need a rethink?

VangoMan02

06/9/2016 at 8:59pm
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I would agree with your take on some of the combos we see when out and about.

I would also agree with your last sentence re: Kia/ Hyundia towing with tail practically scraping the ground in some cases that I have seen.
I think there was an issue with some Kia models rear suspension in the past.

Can't comment as to whether it is poor loading of the caravan or weak rear suspension on the car or 4x4 in general ?

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clbewi

06/9/2016 at 9:07pm
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I think the problem is cars are getting lighter and caravans are getting hiever. Manufacturers aren't interested in towing weights, they want to produce the most fuel efficient vehicles to attract buyers.

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Rob Johns

06/9/2016 at 9:12pm
Location: Portsmouth
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Unfortunately not all those who purchase a caravan read posts here, nor do thy pay much attention to weight restriction and distribution advice given by the two big clubs. I have seen many a caravanner load up and head for the open road without so much as a nod to nose weight gauges or water tank emptying etc. I have seen people literally throwing gear into their van without any thought or planning to load correctly over the axle(s). They then overload the rear of the car and the result is a very dangerous combination. Generally manufacturers of cars and caravans have to be realistic and give reasonable safe limits for their vehicles. It is often the end user who, whether through stupidity, ignorance or both can override advice and end up with a poor and dangerous load combination.

Be safe out there folks!

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skipp66

06/9/2016 at 9:51pm
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I was away this weekend and as usual I loaded the Van with the regular stuff and checked my nose weight with the millenco gauge.
While on site I got chatting to a guy with a Lighter car than mine (59 plate focus diesel) towing a lovely eldis 4 berth.
When I asked him if the van was a Lightweight as it looked big for his car? I got the reply " dunno mate ive never checked it !!"
Offered the use of my guage but he said he was sure he was fine.
I felt a bit awkward as I have been on here for a few years and did lots of checks and hunting for info before i put my kids in the car with a 1200KG van behind it !!
Wish more people used sites like this .

misterg

06/9/2016 at 10:04pm
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Caravan Manufacturers give weights and measures but don't give the ex works nose weight on their charts.this is vital for safe towing.

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Mister G

Opensauce

06/9/2016 at 11:35pm
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Anybody can hitch a caravan to a car. Learning how to do it correctly is voluntary. weights as quoted by car manufacturer are just technical limits that the caravanner must work within they are not a guide to safe towing. If he cannot crunch the numbers & end up with a matched outfit then he should not be towing but I'm sure that will not stop him.

Nothing do with the car at all. I'm sure plenty of caravanners have not the slightest idea of the 'technical limits' of their towcar.

Greg M

07/9/2016 at 7:25am
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I used to think this video was staged until some years ago an ancient VW Golf pulled onto Lickhill Manor site in Stourport smoking away with the clutch burning towing a huge 4 wheel caravan.
Not so sure now.
Greg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQSTMYNqBW8

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JTQU

07/9/2016 at 8:01am
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Quote: Originally posted by misterg on 06/9/2016
Caravan Manufacturers give weights and measures but don't give the ex works nose weight on their charts.this is vital for safe towing.

The ex works noseweight is not "vital for safe towing" as unless we naively tow it home without considering it. It can allow you to assess the loaded weight, but only if you know where the packed weights will be relative to the axle, and their masses to do the moment computations. Something most buyers would simply "gaze over" at the thought rather than actually do or could do.

What is undoubtedly true is that as towed the nose weight is critical, in most cases being best as heavy as the kit limitations allow. What we will se happening I suspect is to follow our European cousins whose vehicle tax tends to push them to buy smaller cars, that they then use or towing. Here designing vans with longer "A" frames is more the norm and designed to work at nearer 4% rather than up to 7% noseweights.

rjb1960

07/9/2016 at 8:28am
Location: essex
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I tow a ace jubilee 4 berth with a Hyundau i30 diesel with no problems and yes the van sits a bit nose down even when empty because the towbar on some sits a couple of inches lower the rear springs hardly move when hitched up all perfectly legal

warrenb

07/9/2016 at 4:13pm
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I think part of the problem here is that noesweights on newer cars are getting lighter all the time.
For example, I have a Rav4 Hybrid and the noseweight is only 70kg, now with nothing in my van the noseweight is nearer 90kg (caravan designers need to take a little blame as well as front loading of equipment is pretty bad, eg, gas bottles, battery etc all at the front).
So I have to load my van back heavy to get the noseweight down. And speaking to other vanners this is not just a problem for me.

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LlaniDavis

07/9/2016 at 5:33pm
Location: Llanidloes Powys
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I've towed for 5 years with Skoda Yeti 4x4's, and using the correct Skoda nose weight the back end of the car hardly drops at all, so I don't know where the OP gets the idea that all Skoda's are like that.

664DaveS

07/9/2016 at 7:33pm
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I think slightly nose down is preferable to nose up.
Our Sorento drops a little with the van on (it does not have SLS) but the van is virtually level.
It is very stable and has done thousands of miles towing, mainly in europe at 60mph where permitted.

We are thinking of changing to another Sorento or a Santa Fe, both will have SLS, although another option is the new Nissan Navarra, but I suspect a pickup will be a bit stiff on the rear as it won't carrying much weight.
Our Unicorn has the gas bottle box over the axle which makes a lot of sense. The two front side boxes are big but only have light stuff in them.
Jack, wood blocks and ramps in one, cables and triangles etc in the other side.

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jethroe

07/9/2016 at 7:35pm
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Quote: Originally posted by LlaniDavis on 07/9/2016
I've towed for 5 years with Skoda Yeti 4x4's, and using the correct Skoda nose weight the back end of the car hardly drops at all, so I don't know where the OP gets the idea that all Skoda's are like that.

I have to agree with your words Llani I tow with a Kia Sportage and don't have any problems with the rear of the car it sits normal with the caravan on the back and awning in car boot, OP is being very critical of vehicles he doesn't own ..

664DaveS

07/9/2016 at 7:39pm
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Good point Jethro, as I said our Sorento drops a little but is rock solid when towing. We also put or awning and bbq in the boot.

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skipp66

07/9/2016 at 8:19pm
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Also a Kia "tower" mine is the old shape Sportage, and tows very well, have to change down to 5th on an incline but set the cruise at 60mph and she tows our 1200KG van with ease, plus a decent size boot too.

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