Home

   Log in or Register



Insurance Quotes
forums Campsite Search Comp Directory tips virtual brochure Profile
Tent and Awning Reviews Competitions Caravans and Motorhomes For Sale Shopping Diary Advent Calendar

Advertisement

Message Forums

Welcome Guest Register Login Search The Forum Posts Since Last Visit
 Reception - All Forums
  Caravans and Caravanning
Share   Post on X / Twitter  Share on Facebook  Email  Printer Friendly Version Print
Subject Topic: Miss Sold - Help please Post Reply Post New Topic
via mobile 01/5/2022 at 11:18am
 Location: 
 Outfit: None Entered
View KWaite's Profile View Profile   Reply to KWaite Reply   Quote KWaite Quote  
Joined: 01/5/2022

Standard Member
Standard Member

Forum Posts:   4

Site Reviews Total: 0
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

I bought a Bailey Senator Carolina for £5800 aged 2006 6 weeks ago private sale off Facebook. The advert had no mention of damp or any items not working or needing attention but in good working order. I could not check anything was working as a private sale with no electric hook up and no gas. I asked for a receipt to state everything is working, when I picked it up the receipt said sold as seen no warranty, so I added everything working before signing. The service found fridge doesn't work, battery needs replacing, grill doesn't work, heating only work on electric, front 3 windows need replacing, it has high readings of damp throughout, the tyres need replacing and there is no socket for the wheel locking nuts!

The initial advert was pulled before I could gain a copy. The seller offered to fix the fridge and grill, he refused a refund so I've sent a letter giving 14 days to respond asking for a refund with the report attached. The recorded letter has not been signed for.

Any advice please?


01/5/2022 at 12:41pm
 Location: 
 Outfit: 
View martin734's Profile View Profile   Reply to martin734 Reply   Quote martin734 Quote  
Joined: 23/1/2019

Gold Member
Gold Member

Forum Posts:   203

Site Reviews Total: 2
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 1  
Site Reviews 2021: 1  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 2
Site Nights 2021: 5
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

I'm really sorry but as this was a private sale there is not really a lot you can do. Private sales do not have anything like the same protections as if you had bought it from a dealer. It is extremely unlikely that he is legally obliged to give you a refund as in a private sale the onus is on the buyer to check the item thoroughly before buying. There is a slight possibility that if the advert was found to be deliberately misleading then you may have a claim for misrepresentation against the seller, but simply omitting to mention faults with the caravan in the advert is not going to be enough to take to court, the seller would have needed to actually lie about the condition, age or specification of the caravan for a civil claim to be successful. Also, by writing "everything working" on the receipt yourself, you may actually harm any case you try to bring as it may be inferred that you have checked everything and found it working, if the seller had written this it may have worked in your favour. I am sorry if this is not what you want to read but with private sales it is very much a case of caveat emptor

Post last edited on 01/05/2022 12:45:32


Discounted Insurance Quotes for UKCampsite.co.uk visitors! Up to 12.5% off!
UKCampsite.co.uk users are rewarded with up to 12.5% off Caravan Guard touring caravan insurance, folding camper and trailer tent insurance, and 5% off motorhome and campervan insurance. Static caravan insurance is also available. Get an online quote now

01/5/2022 at 12:44pm
 Location: East Herts
 Outfit: 1992 Elddis Wisp 450CT + X Trail
View Colin21's Profile View Profile   Reply to Colin21 Reply   Quote Colin21 Quote  
Joined: 05/11/2013

Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   6281

Site Reviews Total: 18
Site Reviews 2024: 1  
Site Reviews 2023: 1  
Site Reviews 2022: 2  
Site Reviews 2021: 2  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 2  
Site Reviews 2018: 3  
Site Nights 2024: 7
Site Nights 2023: 8
Site Nights 2022: 12
Site Nights 2021: 18
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 21
Site Nights 2018: 18

Other than contacting a solicitor, I don't think there is much you can do if it was a genuine private sale. Very much a case of buyer beware I'm afraid. What may be worth looking at is whether it was actually a private sale or a back-street dealer. Often the latter will try to pretend they are a private seller because they know that the law offers buyers much greater protection if they are buying from a dealer. With a private sale there is little you can do unless you can prove that the item sold (the caravan) was deliberately misrepresented.


-------------
Best Regards,
Colin


via mobile 01/5/2022 at 12:45pm
 Location: Yorkshire
 Outfit: None Entered
View lidds0's Profile View Profile   Reply to lidds0 Reply   Quote lidds0 Quote  
Joined: 24/8/2009

Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   4494

Site Reviews Total: 57
Site Reviews 2024: 7  
Site Reviews 2023: 10 
Site Reviews 2022: 1  
Site Reviews 2021: 4  
Site Reviews 2020: 1  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 8  
Site Nights 2024: 37
Site Nights 2023: 48
Site Nights 2022: 20
Site Nights 2021: 9
Site Nights 2020: 2
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 8

Oh dear, what a nightmare for you!

It's my understanding that a seller doesn't have to state the faults, they just can't misrepresent the item. Is there any way of getting a copy of the ad, to confirm how it was worded??

You say you purchased the van 6 weeks ago. Have you only just approached the seller? If so, why the delay? It's likely the seller could claim things have gone wrong during your ownership, since a month and a half has elapsed.

Did you not notice clouding of the front windows on viewing the van? Did the van have a musty smell? Did you thoroughly check in all cupboards, under bench seats etc?

I'm guessing all you can do is go down the Small Claims Court route, but previous threads on here suggest that's not always successful even if you win the case.

Does the seller live far away from you?


via mobile 01/5/2022 at 1:23pm
 Location: 
 Outfit: None Entered
View KWaite's Profile View Profile   Reply to KWaite Reply   Quote KWaite Quote  
Joined: 01/5/2022

Standard Member
Standard Member

Forum Posts:   4

Site Reviews Total: 0
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

Thank ou for you time replying. I've tried to gin a copy of the advert from Facebook but had no reply. I specifically asked if it had damp and if everything worked and was told it was damp free and all worked. I also have a witness that was with me.   The reason for the delay was waiting for a service first, for safety and peace of mind reason's with my family. The service company have been to the same chap twice before looking for other people purchasing off the same chap, the engineer thinks he is flipping them.


Advertisement



01/5/2022 at 1:54pm
 Location: East Herts
 Outfit: 1992 Elddis Wisp 450CT + X Trail
View Colin21's Profile View Profile   Reply to Colin21 Reply   Quote Colin21 Quote  
Joined: 05/11/2013

Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   6281

Site Reviews Total: 18
Site Reviews 2024: 1  
Site Reviews 2023: 1  
Site Reviews 2022: 2  
Site Reviews 2021: 2  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 2  
Site Reviews 2018: 3  
Site Nights 2024: 7
Site Nights 2023: 8
Site Nights 2022: 12
Site Nights 2021: 18
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 21
Site Nights 2018: 18

Quote: Originally posted by KWaite on 01/5/2022
Thank ou for you time replying. I've tried to gin a copy of the advert from Facebook but had no reply. I specifically asked if it had damp and if everything worked and was told it was damp free and all worked. I also have a witness that was with me.   The reason for the delay was waiting for a service first, for safety and peace of mind reason's with my family. The service company have been to the same chap twice before looking for other people purchasing off the same chap, the engineer thinks he is flipping them.



Your last sentence suggest there may be more hope. It is beginning to sound like the seller may in fact be a back-street dealer, which gives you much more chance of getting your money back. If you can provide evidence that this isn't the only caravan they have sold recently, it may be worth taking it further. If others have bought off him it probably wasn't a private sale at all. Maybe the service company could help in that respect.


-------------
Best Regards,
Colin


via mobile 01/5/2022 at 7:11pm
 Location: Yorkshire
 Outfit: None Entered
View lidds0's Profile View Profile   Reply to lidds0 Reply   Quote lidds0 Quote  
Joined: 24/8/2009

Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   4494

Site Reviews Total: 57
Site Reviews 2024: 7  
Site Reviews 2023: 10 
Site Reviews 2022: 1  
Site Reviews 2021: 4  
Site Reviews 2020: 1  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 8  
Site Nights 2024: 37
Site Nights 2023: 48
Site Nights 2022: 20
Site Nights 2021: 9
Site Nights 2020: 2
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 8

Quote: Originally posted by Colin21 on 01/5/2022
Quote: Originally posted by KWaite on 01/5/2022
Thank ou for you time replying. I've tried to gin a copy of the advert from Facebook but had no reply. I specifically asked if it had damp and if everything worked and was told it was damp free and all worked. I also have a witness that was with me.   The reason for the delay was waiting for a service first, for safety and peace of mind reason's with my family. The service company have been to the same chap twice before looking for other people purchasing off the same chap, the engineer thinks he is flipping them.



Your last sentence suggest there may be more hope. It is beginning to sound like the seller may in fact be a back-street dealer, which gives you much more chance of getting your money back. If you can provide evidence that this isn't the only caravan they have sold recently, it may be worth taking it further. If others have bought off him it probably wasn't a private sale at all. Maybe the service company could help in that respect.





So the engineer who serviced your van said he's twice inspected other vans being sold by this seller, at his/her address?

Data protection might well mean he can't confirm this in writing, unless his other clients agree, but it's surely worth contacting the engineer in this respect.

Keep an eye open for any other vans being sold by this seller, at this address. Maybe even ask him to confirm whether he's a private seller or a trader, since you've discovered other caravans have recently been sold from his address. If he is a backstreet trader, he won't want exposing.

What did the seller agree in respect of the fridge and the grill? Do you have his response in writing?

To be fair, I suspect you'll not get far with this. We once bought a van from a private seller who came across as totally legit, said he had certain spare (out of stock) parts on order so would arrange for them to be sent to our address when available. They never arrived and he ignored all emails and telephone calls.

There are unscrupulous people our there, it really is a case of caveat emptor.



01/5/2022 at 8:43pm
 Location: Essex
 Outfit: None Entered
View skipp66's Profile View Profile   Reply to skipp66 Reply   Quote skipp66 Quote  
Joined: 08/6/2008

Gold Member
Gold Member

Forum Posts:   211
Tent Reviews:   3

Site Reviews Total: 2
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

Ohh dear, sounds like you have been very unlucky.
But does sound like the van was not " fit for purpose" but as it was a private sale your rights are minimal.
The small claims court may get you enough money to fix the van but could take a while and no guarantees.
If you can prove the seller was a trader you may have some comeback but these people are very elusive.
Fingers crossed for you


01/5/2022 at 10:08pm
 Location: East Herts
 Outfit: 1992 Elddis Wisp 450CT + X Trail
View Colin21's Profile View Profile   Reply to Colin21 Reply   Quote Colin21 Quote  
Joined: 05/11/2013

Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   6281

Site Reviews Total: 18
Site Reviews 2024: 1  
Site Reviews 2023: 1  
Site Reviews 2022: 2  
Site Reviews 2021: 2  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 2  
Site Reviews 2018: 3  
Site Nights 2024: 7
Site Nights 2023: 8
Site Nights 2022: 12
Site Nights 2021: 18
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 21
Site Nights 2018: 18

Quote: Originally posted by skipp66 on 01/5/2022
Ohh dear, sounds like you have been very unlucky.
But does sound like the van was not " fit for purpose" but as it was a private sale your rights are minimal.
The small claims court may get you enough money to fix the van but could take a while and no guarantees.
If you can prove the seller was a trader you may have some comeback but these people are very elusive.
Fingers crossed for you



I don't have a lot of faith in the small claims court. I have "won" two cases with them but didn't get a penny. The problem seems to be that you have to pursue the person you claimed against for non payment. That costs you more money, and you can still get nowhere as I didn't.


-------------
Best Regards,
Colin


via mobile 02/5/2022 at 8:39am
 Location: Ayrshire
 Outfit: Auto-Sleeper MHs
View Fiona W's Profile View Profile   Reply to Fiona W Reply   Quote Fiona W Quote  
Joined: 10/4/2007

Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   5148
Tent Reviews:   1

Site Reviews Total: 234
Site Reviews 2024: 18 
Site Reviews 2023: 8  
Site Reviews 2022: 12 
Site Reviews 2021: 10 
Site Reviews 2020: 4  
Site Reviews 2019: 9  
Site Reviews 2018: 18 
Site Nights 2024: 37
Site Nights 2023: 25
Site Nights 2022: 32
Site Nights 2021: 25
Site Nights 2020: 20
Site Nights 2019: 28
Site Nights 2018: 30

Gather the evidence you have of this person being a dealer & report him to Trading Standards.

-------------
2024 = 20 sites / 41 nights. 2023 = 9/23. 2022 = 13/35. 2021 = 11/29. 2020 = 4/20. 2019 = 13/35. 2018 = 20/33. 2017 = 10/22. 2016 = 19/33. 2015 = 15 sites / 27 nights. Didn't count 1976 to 2014.


Advertisement



02/5/2022 at 10:32am
 Location: Worcestershire
 Outfit: Buccaneer Cruiser
View iank01's Profile View Profile   Reply to iank01 Reply   Quote iank01 Quote  
Joined: 30/6/2004

Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   4062

Site Reviews Total: 5
Site Reviews 2024: 1  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 1  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 5
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 10
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

If the ad never mentioned damp then there is very little you can do as it is a private sale so a case of "Buyer Beware". Unlikely that a verbal comment stating no damp will be accepted. If the ad stated everything working then there could be a case under the Misrepresentation Act 1967.

However you need to show proof of the ad stating everything in working order and also if you can show proof that the individual is selling caravans as a business, it is a criminal offence and they will be prosecuted. Also HM Revenue and Customs would be very interested. I wonder if the person selling these caravans pretending to be an individual is claiming any benefits?

We got caught like that and someone on here gave us a link where it showed that the person who lived in Birmingham was selling at least one caravan a month. We handed it over to Trading Standards who then investigated to bring criminal charges against the seller.

Another way could be to collate proof that they have sold several caravans in the past year and then mention to the seller that you think they are a business pretending to be an individual and that you are going to take it up with Trading Standards unless they give you a full refund immediately when you return the caravan, but be very careful.

Your biggest issue is no proof of the ad!


02/5/2022 at 2:07pm
 Location: 
 Outfit: None Entered
View KWaite's Profile View Profile   Reply to KWaite Reply   Quote KWaite Quote  
Joined: 01/5/2022

Standard Member
Standard Member

Forum Posts:   4

Site Reviews Total: 0
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

Thank you all for your time replying, much appreciated.


02/5/2022 at 2:41pm
 Location: Worcestershire
 Outfit: Buccaneer Cruiser
View iank01's Profile View Profile   Reply to iank01 Reply   Quote iank01 Quote  
Joined: 30/6/2004

Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   4062

Site Reviews Total: 5
Site Reviews 2024: 1  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 1  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 5
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 10
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

Quote: Originally posted by Colin21 on 01/5/2022
Quote: Originally posted by skipp66 on 01/5/2022
Ohh dear, sounds like you have been very unlucky.
But does sound like the van was not " fit for purpose" but as it was a private sale your rights are minimal.
The small claims court may get you enough money to fix the van but could take a while and no guarantees.
If you can prove the seller was a trader you may have some comeback but these people are very elusive.
Fingers crossed for you



I don't have a lot of faith in the small claims court. I have "won" two cases with them but didn't get a penny. The problem seems to be that you have to pursue the person you claimed against for non payment. That costs you more money, and you can still get nowhere as I didn't.



That is were you are probably wrong. We had the issue of non payment after a small claims court issue so handed it over to the bailiffs. They added their fees to the claim costing us nothing.
We got the full amount due and the defendant had to pay the bailiff fess. Later found out that the bailiffs had attached his pride and joy, a Jaguar XJ6.


02/5/2022 at 3:35pm
 Location: East Herts
 Outfit: 1992 Elddis Wisp 450CT + X Trail
View Colin21's Profile View Profile   Reply to Colin21 Reply   Quote Colin21 Quote  
Joined: 05/11/2013

Diamond Member
Diamond Member

Forum Posts:   6281

Site Reviews Total: 18
Site Reviews 2024: 1  
Site Reviews 2023: 1  
Site Reviews 2022: 2  
Site Reviews 2021: 2  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 2  
Site Reviews 2018: 3  
Site Nights 2024: 7
Site Nights 2023: 8
Site Nights 2022: 12
Site Nights 2021: 18
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 21
Site Nights 2018: 18

Quote: Originally posted by iank01 on 02/5/2022
Quote: Originally posted by Colin21 on 01/5/2022

I don't have a lot of faith in the small claims court. I have "won" two cases with them but didn't get a penny. The problem seems to be that you have to pursue the person you claimed against for non payment. That costs you more money, and you can still get nowhere as I didn't.



That is were you are probably wrong. We had the issue of non payment after a small claims court issue so handed it over to the bailiffs. They added their fees to the claim costing us nothing.
We got the full amount due and the defendant had to pay the bailiff fess. Later found out that the bailiffs had attached his pride and joy, a Jaguar XJ6.




Depends on the circumstances. In my first case the person that owed me money claimed that he had no money. I knew him and that was probably right. He did agree to pay me a tiny amount monthly, which I accepted. He paid me for a couple of months then stopped. To get any more I would have to have taken him back to court with probably a repeat of the above. I didn't bother.

The second case was quite the opposite. I knew that he was a millionaire, probably several times over. However, it turned out that on paper he had absolutely nothing. Everything was either owned by various limited companies or in his wife or son's name. Consequently there was nothing to seize. Apparently he was well known locally and had done similar to nearly every small business locally. He was a truly accomplished expert in such activities. If only I'd known, but I was a newcomer on the small business scene at the time and relatively new to the area.



-------------
Best Regards,
Colin


via mobile 04/5/2022 at 4:57pm
 Location: Mansfield Notts
 Outfit: Avondale Dart
View fireworks's Profile View Profile   Reply to fireworks Reply   Quote fireworks Quote  
Joined: 18/4/2007

Silver Member
Silver Member

Forum Posts:   122

Site Reviews Total: 7
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 2  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 10
Site Nights 2018: 0

If you gather sufficient evidence that he is “a trader” and you are unable to get any recompense then report him to HMRC as I doubt that he is paying any tax on the profits he is making. Spiteful I know but might make you feel better and stop any further sales.

-------------
Janet & John



05/5/2022 at 12:31pm
 Location: 
 Outfit: None Entered
View KWaite's Profile View Profile   Reply to KWaite Reply   Quote KWaite Quote  
Joined: 01/5/2022

Standard Member
Standard Member

Forum Posts:   4

Site Reviews Total: 0
Site Reviews 2024: 0  
Site Reviews 2023: 0  
Site Reviews 2022: 0  
Site Reviews 2021: 0  
Site Reviews 2020: 0  
Site Reviews 2019: 0  
Site Reviews 2018: 0  
Site Nights 2024: 0
Site Nights 2023: 0
Site Nights 2022: 0
Site Nights 2021: 0
Site Nights 2020: 0
Site Nights 2019: 0
Site Nights 2018: 0

Great advice thank you all.



In order to post a reply you will need to register, or if already registered please log in here

Prev       Next
Quick Links - All Forums - Caravans and Caravanning - Top of Page

Printer Friendly Version Printable version      Share   Post on X / Twitter  Share on Facebook  Email


Latest News, Discounts and Competitions  see all...














5213 Visitors online !

Free UKCampsite.co.uk Window Sticker  -  Recommend to Friend  -  Add a Missing Campsite

[Message Forums]  [Caravan Sites & Camping]  [Company Listings]  [Features / Advice]  [Virtual Brochure]  [Shop!]
[Reception]  [Competitions]  [Caravans & Motorhomes For Sale]  [Event Diary]  [Contact Us]  [Tent Reviews



Please note we are not responsible for the content of external sites & any reviews represent the author's personal view only. Please report any error here. You may view our privacy and cookie policy and terms and conditions here. All copyrights & other intellectual property rights in the design and content of this web site are reserved to the UKCampsite.co.uk © 1999 - 2024


Advertisement


Advertisement


UKCampsite.co.uk
2024 Advent Calendar


Advent Calendar

24 Daily Prizes PLUS a Christmas Day Star Prize worth £999

Request a Reminder